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Forum:Unexplained issues?
( I moved all of the patch_related talk to my Talk page. It was off topic here. I hope you all don't mind) This is a place to discuss little known internal mechanics of the game, version 1.31. ---- :I know there have been some discussions, but I can't think what they are at the moment. One thing that I think of is a number of Research Required or here Buggy Features, many of those are small issues. I mainly wanted to say THANKS for the offer, I intended to try to contact you at some point (I'm familiar with some of your work). Anyway, welcome and thanks again. MysticX2 (talk) 23:42, July 20, 2013 (UTC) :It's a bit off-topic, but let me post some bugs which are probably not fixed in your 1.40 version: :::Thanks. I commented your list. :::(I put "exploit" comment to issues that I consider simply avoidable by not_doing_them. These are not very important to me, I must say) Kyrub (talk) 11:32, July 21, 2013 (UTC) : I have a question about difficulty ratings: Which boni do the opponents get? Do they get an external money/mana income beside the percental increase? Are there any boni beside power base, gold, productivity and mercenary hiring? : And I always wondered, why High Elves have no Priest units. Are their animations contained in some LBX file (like Draconian Engineers)? 08:18, July 21, 2013 (UTC) :::The thing with Heroism seems logical since it is dispelled automatically when a unit reaches the Elite level. Am I missing something? Also, the thing about cancelling an enchantment but stays in effect for the remainder of the turn would seem to be right since it isn't until the end of your turn that your orders are processed...but maybe it is a little confusing. MysticX2 (talk) 12:34, July 21, 2013 (UTC) Create Undead Whoah, Kyrub. How nice to get a guy with code knowledge. I have plenty of questions on that, but regarding 1.31, not your patch. And a few comments on that list above. So: 1)How does Life Steal ability, Life Drain spell, Vampiric enchanted weapons for Heroes and Create Undead create undead? What are exact reqs to create undead? ~Twilight : Game records 3 types of damage: A) irreversible (stoning, doom bolt, death, destruction), B) life_draining (Life Drain, Create Undead dmg, Vampiric) and C) normal damage, e.g. all other. When A >= B and A >= C, the unit cannot be recovered in any way. When B>A and B >= C, the unit turns undead. When C > A and C > B, the unit dies "normally" and can be raised from the dead, animated, regenerated or, in case of a hero, resurrected. ::I'm guessing that Cracks Call is considered irreversible? I ask because I noticed that you cannot resurrect a hero, and you don't get to re-assign their items, when defeated by Cracks Call. Does that apply to all irreversible defeats and are there others besides those 4 or 5? I hope that makes sense. MysticX2 (talk) 00:14, July 24, 2013 (UTC) ::::Yes, Cracks Call is considered as irreversible. There are a few others, usually described in the spellbook. (Doombolt, Disintegrate, Cracks Call, Petrify, as far as I can remember). Side note: The interesting part about Cracks Call is, that the spell was probably meant to be a simply better version of Disrupt, that can be targetted at a wall section, while potentially damaging the nearby unit in the process of destroying the wall. But they either omitted the targetting part or just changed the idea in the last moment and the spell got off to a totally new usage (while wall part is meaningless). And that was not the last lapse, as one bit of AI code signals. AI will *not* target Cracks Call at units with Merging movement. It's logical, although it was not implemented to its very end. --- I find it funny, some of the most popular features in old games tend to be created by mistake or bug of some kind. ::::++ I am pretty sure, heroes defeated by Cracks Call can be recovered by Resurrection. Oh, Cracks Call page says the opposite, so I am probably wrong. ::Yes, I do find things like that make the game more interesting, when a feature is caused by a mistake or bug! I tend to play games for entertainment and therefore I don't often make notes (something I've come to regret at times). The thing that stood out to me was when this type of death prevented the re-assignment of the items and then I found you couldn't resurrect the unit (usually a single figure unit). For someone like me it is difficult to determine when a defeat is caused by something like Stoning/Petrify, but the change in the dialogue and being unable to re-assign a hero's items is a clue. ::Will it work to refer to these as 3 types of defeat instead of damage, since Damage Type is already defined and described in numerous ways. Or is there a better term? MysticX2 (talk) 08:06, July 24, 2013 (UTC) :::Damage Category? Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 10:16, July 24, 2013 (UTC) ::::Yeah, I even got confused trying to write something using that...I'd like to stay away from both of those words if possible (damage and category). However, after contemplating this information I think you were right, Twilight, about Kyrub's meaning...that it isn't how the last damage occurs, but how the most damage occurs. I don't know if I can write the updates, but I'll look at it. MysticX2 (talk) 00:47, July 26, 2013 (UTC) :::::If you don't like the words, what about dmg cat? It's like a cat and it's dmg. As for my opinion on Kyrub's meaning, testing should prove. I did note an appropriate experiment at Suggestions. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 03:25, July 26, 2013 (UTC) ::After sleeping on it I think I was over complicating the matter. The irreversible damage and life-draining damage is a description of the effect of some Special Attacks. It's really only a matter of how the game determines the outcome for that unit. Still, there are a number of pages that should get the information. MysticX2 (talk) 08:49, July 26, 2013 (UTC) Other Questions 2) What are exact unrest modifiers for Great Wasting and Armageddon? :: They are both bugged. Great Wasting should have been 1 extra rebel and Armmageddon 2 extra rebels. Instead, they CANCEL all good effects from religious buildings and set unrest to 1 or 2. If you have both in effect, only the latter works. You may have the extra mali from Dark rituals, Pestilence on top of it though. But police still works, as does Gaia Blessing and Stream of life. : 3) When is bonus defense from Mag/Missile Immunity applied exactly? :: What do you mean? It overrides the number of shields, it's always straight 50. Only the City wall bonus increases it by +3. There is a nasty bug, which probably occurs only in minor cases. When a unit has weapon_immunity and missile_immunity, the former overrides the latter. You get only the classic "at least 10 shields" instead of straight 50. Nasty! : Also Magic immunity can be pierced by illusionary attack. I once found that a few items with extra effect (axes??) can bypass it as well, but I cannot remember where I saw it. So nothing more on this. Total immunity = Magic immunity + True Sight. : 4) How exactly do units move on overland map (see Forum: Exploits for details)? :: I hate movement part of the code, all engineers problems, windwalking, waterwalking. It's a babylon. I think they messed up, overcomplicated what should have been coded rather simply. Sorry. : 5) Is it (technically) possible for a wizard to have negative power input? :: You mean powerbase? How that happen? Through a Warp Node? But AIs always swim in mana... I just can't see that happen. : 6) Famine - how does food production work exactly, with modifiers? : Look for the answer in the code, please. Regarding the list above: 1) did not try Word of Death, but Life Drain ignores Death Immunity. (should try making undead out of undead? WTF?) :: I am all but sure I corrected this one of the last 3 updates in Insecticide patch (1.40). : 2) As for dispelling the Web, I think unit should regain the ability to fly, as it actually does it if it is not innate flier. :: Really? Now, that seems like a good argument for it being a bug. (I never correct unclear issues.) : 3) The spell charges exploit works nice, and the charges can even be added as 5th stat on item that normally cannot use charges, though only when enchanted onto weapon slot will it be castable. :: Hmm. I thought I corrected it already. That's a nasty part of the code, I will hardly ever come back to it. (You don't really play with exploits, do you?) : 4) For non-working spells, plenty of these are from Death realm. Look through this wiki. :: Yeah, I saw something. Thanks for your points and info. Kyrub (talk) 13:55, July 21, 2013 (UTC) : 5)Phantom units bug happens when you can play around with spells that affect figure's hit points, such as Black Channels or Charm of Life, take a look at Black Channels page. Personally, I think that exploits should stay if the MoM is even getting upgraded, but those spells that don't work should be fixed. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 12:35, July 21, 2013 (UTC) Well, I really do play with exploits - these are the finest of the fun. I especially like messing with roads - mostly on water tiles, as contributor noted previously. I really suggest looking onto these phantom units bug for your next patches (bad algorythm). Another question of importance: where exactly is new item created via spell? I know it is usually created at your fortress, but in my experience, after some movement of summoning circle and having multiple towns, the item does not appear in any town (cannot be freely picked by hero in this town)! I know it can be teleported to fortress vault freely at any time, but the exact location is an important thing to know. Please, look through the code for how the program decides where new item is located. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 14:23, July 22, 2013 (UTC) Hydra When Hydra is treated as Single-Firure Unit, if is? Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 04:10, July 24, 2013 (UTC) :Sorry but I think that something has been lost here with all of us posting here, a Hydra is What? when treated as a SFU? Maybe others see what you mean, but I couldn't see what that was referring to...sorry. MysticX2 (talk) 08:15, July 24, 2013 (UTC) ::It's interesting to me to know if there is any case at all in which Hydra is treated as SFU. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 10:17, July 24, 2013 (UTC) :Oh yeah, that's even one of the research required questions on the Hydra page! Unless I'm forgetting another unit, it is the only 9-figure unit in the game...or is it just an odd single figure unit?! MysticX2 (talk) 00:44, July 26, 2013 (UTC) Numbers I'm not sure if this is something that you would know, but in some of my games I've tracked the number of nodes, encounter areas, and such...I know, boring. Anyway, I counted 30 Nodes each time, so is that "always" 30? I've also counted 55 or 56 encounter areas (dungeons, temples, etc.), likewise, is that a set number? MysticX2 (talk) 03:35, July 22, 2013 (UTC) :This is answered here Forum:Infos_from_Official_Strategy_Guide. MysticX2 (talk) 00:11, August 8, 2013 (UTC) Food production & Population Growth I tried to figure it out myself. But it is too complicated. In the following, Limit notes the sum of all food resources belonging to a city if you use the surveyor (river counts as 2, grassland as 1.5, hill, swamp, forest, shore as 0.5) Basically, farmers produce 2 food until Limit is reached and 1 food afterwards. But what happens if you have got an Animist's Guild or if your population is Halfling? It seems, farmers produce 3 food until Limit reached, and then 2 food for a while, before it goes down to 1 food. Now about population growth. It's roughly floor( 0.5*Limit - 0.5*population ) * 10 %. But what happens with races with population groth mali and boni? Also: which boni does the AI get? If you play on impossible, the enemy cities grow freaking fast. And I experienced that the opponent had only 1 outpost left, but this was enough to maintain 10 units. 15:59, July 30, 2013 (UTC) : Thanks for the insigt into your testing. I actually have looked into the matter, but the food question seems really strange and somehow unclear. I will try to get better understanding how it works, later.Kyrub (talk) 19:19, July 30, 2013 (UTC)